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Post by observer on Jan 5, 2016 8:11:10 GMT
What is with the title of Prince de Frankopan? From what I understand, it is solely of "historical" use through descent of the female line, and is not recognized. Can any person with historical ties to a noble family just assume that title? This case is exhaustively discussed at www.wikipedia.org.pk/wiki/Talk:House_of_Frankopan
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Post by observer on Oct 16, 2015 10:42:01 GMT
I posted this question a long time ago and got no reply I am trying it again. My question, is about royal houses versus royal familes I am interested in knowing the different between them. Both Norway and the Netherlands makes a distinction between both. In Norway His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus is only a HH will he be upgrade to a full HRH when his father becomes king from what I read only the king queen crown prince and crown princes and the crown princes heir, Her Royal Highness Princess Ingrid Alexandra are members of the Royal house and are titled HRH. and that HH Prices Sverre Magnus is not as of right now. I did note Her Highness Princess Märtha Louise the king daughter was a HRH before how did she qualify and not Prices Sverre Magnus. I noted she gave up the title for business reason and became a HH why was she made a HRH at birth and Prince Sverre Magnus was not. I do find the system in the Netherlands even more confusing to as to who is part of the royal house versus royal family and having to be related to the king with in three degrees of kinship to the monarch to be in the line of succession. it includes the king the queen the former Queen all the kings daughters. I see in Demark the grandsons and granddaughter of the Queens sons are only HH why is that when there father is a HRH Is there othere countires that hae simlar rules if anyone has more details I love to read it As you note above, I believe that the distinction is that members of a Royal House are in the line of succession as determined by the country's constitution, while members of the Royal Family are not in the line of succession as determined by the country's constitution. I don't believe Prince Sverre Magnus will become an HRH when his father becomes king, as membership of the Royal House is limited to the monarch and his or her spouse, the heir apparent and his or her spouse, and the heir apparent's eldest child. He would become an HRH only if his sister dies without heirs, or if she becomes Queen before she marries or has legitimate heirs - when she does, he will again no longer be in the Royal House according to the Norwegian Constitution. With regard to Princess Martha Louise, I believe that she received her HRH before Norway's change in its line of succession, which affected only unborn heirs. With regard to whether or not someone is an HRH or an HH, it depends on the country's practice and whether the individual is, e.g., a child or a grandchild of the sovereign. In Great Britain, both of the Duke of Cambridge's children were created HRH by a modification on 31 December 2012 of the Letters Patent issued by King George V on 30 October 1917, which had reserved the style of His (or Her) Royal Highness to the children of a sovereign, the children of sons of a sovereign (that is, grandchildren in the male line of a sovereign), and the children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales.
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Post by observer on Oct 12, 2015 10:16:05 GMT
As a Royal heraldist I am a bit disappointed at the lack of notification regarding the Coat of Arms of both Prince Nicolas (since his dukedom has been confirmed I don't see any problem) and Princess Sofia, and whether they have been appointed to the Order of the Seraphim. By the way, congratulations all round. Princesses Estelle and Leonore received the Seraphim at their baptism, so Prince Nicolas may get it then. Christopher O'Neill became a Commander of the Royal Order of the Polar Star on his marriage, so it is perhaps too early to expect either he or Sofia to receive the Seraphim Order. It seems that Prince Nicholas was presented with the insignia of Knight of the Royal Order of the Seraphim on 11 October 2015 but was a member from his birth in June. He seems also to have been a Knight of the Order of Charles XIII since birth.
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Post by observer on Jun 26, 2015 1:04:24 GMT
As a Royal heraldist I am a bit disappointed at the lack of notification regarding the Coat of Arms of both Prince Nicolas (since his dukedom has been confirmed I don't see any problem) and Princess Sofia, and whether they have been appointed to the Order of the Seraphim. By the way, congratulations all round. Princesses Estelle and Leonore received the Seraphim at their baptism, so Prince Nicolas may get it then. Christopher O'Neill became a Commander of the Royal Order of the Polar Star on his marriage, so it is perhaps too early to expect either he or Sofia to receive the Seraphim Order.
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Post by observer on Feb 11, 2015 5:24:24 GMT
"...but once The Queen dies will all the government officials, members of the armed forces, etc have to swear a new oath to Charles III?"
Probably not - oaths of allegiance are to the sovereign, heirs, and successors, so there is no need to take the oath again.
Incidentally, there has been some suggestion that Charles favors George VII, after his grand-father, rather than Charles III as his regnal name.
I believe that George Washington swore oaths of allegiance to the King as a Vestryman, as a surveyor, and as a militia officer, before renouncing his allegiance.
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Post by observer on Dec 17, 2014 22:16:49 GMT
The official announcement simply states: Son Altesse Sérénissime la Princesse Gabriella, Thérèse, Marie, Notre fille Bien-Aimée, portera, selon l’usage historique, le titre de Comtesse de Carladès. cloud.gouv.mc/Dataweb/jourmon.nsf/9bf97b0da6308cfdc12568c40037f873/a7184a7145669980c1257dac00298c84!OpenDocument A similar wording is used in the announcement concerning the title of Marquis de Baux. "Portera, selon l’usage historique" seems to refer to the use of this title in the past as one for younger sons of the reigning prince. The announcement itself says nothing about descendants as the wording seems to imply that the title is ad personam, or for the life of the child only. This would be similar to the use of the title of Baroness de Massy I noted earlier. Louis I Honoré, Sovereign Prince of Monaco from 1662 to 1701, was styled Count of Carladès from 1642–59, and Duke of Valentinois from 1659 to 1662. He succeeded his grandfather, Honoré II, who was Lord of Monaco from 1604–1612, and Prince and Lord of Monaco 1612–1662. This ruler simply assumed the title of Prince and Lord of Monaco in 1612, but he received a number of titles from King Louis XIII of France, being created Duke of Valentinois and Marquis des Baux on 22 May 1642 and Count of Carladès in January 1643. The usage of these titles for the first and second in the line of succession seems to be a renewal of much earlier usage that was not possible in more modern times until the changes in the succession laws in 2002, which probably explains why neither Princess Antoinette nor Princess Caroline received the tile of Countess of Carladès. I believe that all these titles are extinct as French titles as they could not be transmitted through the female line. The husband of Princess Louise Hippolyte received the Valentinois title by cession from Louis XIV, however, but not those of Baux and Carladès. As Prince Rainier succeeded through his legitimated mother, all claims to Baux and Carladès would have died with his grandfather. Although her grandfather styled Charlotte Duchess of Valentinois, the basis for doing so is not clear, and it might be assumed that this, too, was simply "according to historical usage."
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Post by observer on Dec 15, 2014 7:20:40 GMT
It's great to see the arrival of royal twins; I know that the title of Marquis of Baux is the traditional title for the heir to Monaco's throne but to my knowledge its the first time a daughter has received a title; just curious if this is a life time title or a hereditary title? Sovereign Prince Louis II gave his legitimated daughter Charlotte the title Duchess of Valentinois for life in 1918, before she became Hereditary Princess in 1922 - that title having been introduced in 1882. Rainier created his sister Princess Antoinette Baroness de Massy, also apparently for life as her children do not seem entitled to it. Previous sovereign princes/princesses accorded their daughters the style of 'Mademoiselle de...' in the style of the French monarchy, e.g., the daughters of Louis I, Antony I, Louise Hippolyte, etc,
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Post by observer on Dec 7, 2014 22:45:00 GMT
I do wish the Danish royal family would pick other names besides Christian and Frederick for their Kings !. Danish regnal names have traditionally alternated between Frederick (Frederik) and Christian. Margrethe has taken the place of a Christian. Her heir is Crown Prince Frederik. True only for the House of Oldenburg, of which the current rulers are from a cadet branch. Previous Houses used, e.g., Erik (1 - VII), Christopher (1 - III), Valdemar (1 - IV), Canute (I -VI), Sweyn (I - III), and even Olaf (I - II). Margrethe seems to be the preferred name for reigning queens, as the only other reigning queen was Margrethe I.
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Post by observer on Nov 21, 2014 0:39:04 GMT
How would this work? The Queen gives birth to a daughter, but has no other living children before she dies. The King re-marries. His bride becomes pregnant but he dies before the baby is born. Would the daughter automatically be named Queen or would they wait to see if the new Queen had a boy or lost the child before anyone ascended? What would be the proedure? And wouldit differ based on the daughters age? Like if the daughter waas 12 instead of 24. I'm thinking of old times. 1500s or later possibly. And a European Kingdom There would probably be a regency until such time as the unborn child arrived, and then the heir according to the country's succession laws would be proclaimed monarch. An example is the case of French king Louis X's queen, Clemence d'Anjou, who was pregnant at the time of his death in 1316. Louis' living daughter was passed over, Louis' brother became regent till Clemence gave birth to a boy who immediately succeeded to the throne as King Jean I. In recent times, this happened in Spain = King Alfonso XII died while his wife was pregnant, so his widow became regent for her unborn child. If the child had been a girl, their older daughter would have become Queen but, as the child was a boy, he became King (as Alfonso XIII) on his birth. While the child is a legal minor (as determined for monarchs, and which may differ from that for others), a regent would rule.
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Post by observer on Oct 11, 2014 12:14:35 GMT
...How things will change when Victoria of Sweden, Ingrid Alexandra of Norway, Elisabeth of Belgium and Caterina-Amalia of the Netherlands ascend the throne themselves. But this seems to be the current trend... Add Leonor of Spain to this list. The press invariably comments also on what Queen Elizabeth II wears. I wonder if it is because, so it is said, women dress to impress other women?
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Post by observer on Aug 2, 2014 23:01:42 GMT
My Earl has died leaving an only child, a daughter. She has married a commoner. They have two children, eldest a boy and a daughter. Would the son inherit the title? Owen, I'm guessing you are writing a novel. As I understand it, in England generally the title would die out if the earl died without a son or another male relative through the male line (for example, the earl's brother or brother's son). It could not be inherited by his daughter's son. However, I'm not an expert on this subject, so I hope someone can verify or correct my answer. Succession would depend on the terms of the letters patent issued when the peerage was created. The usual succession was legitimate male heirs of the body only. Some peerages, like Mountbatten of Burma, allowed for succession by daughters. Others allowed succession by other relatives, like the peerages awarded to Lord Nelson. Peerages have been created with the original peer being succeeded by a second son rather than the eldest, a brother, nephew, and so on. If it's a Scots peerage, then the late peer's daughter might inherit, e.g., the Countess of Mar, under the terms of creation. And if you want really complicated succession conditions, look at the Marlboroughs! So, unless you know the succession terms set out in the original letters patent and which peerage it is in, there is no way of answering the original question. If you are writing a book, rather than thinking of a real case, you can create you own succession rules.
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Post by observer on Jun 17, 2014 9:14:23 GMT
Does anyone know why there will not be a religious blessing at the future King swearing in ceremony? the Catholic church has been such a integral part of Spanish royalty for centuries I find it odd; I am not a religious person but a firm believer in traditions having a place in modern society. In reference to King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia's future title status I have read that they will maintain their titles. I would guess that there is to be no religious blessing because this is not a coronation but a constitutional inauguration. Despite newspaper reports referring to the "crowning" of the new king and/or his "coronation," he won't wear the crown and there hasn't been a coronation in Spain for around 500 years. Moreover, as there is no established church in Spain, why should any church be involved in a state occasion? And, given the scandals surrounding both members of the royal family and of the Catholic church (particularly the child trafficking by nuns affair, and child sex abuse), perhaps it is wiser not to associate that church with the inauguration of a new monarch. The Spanish catholic church also has a Francoist past, another reason for not involving it now, perhaps.
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Post by observer on Jun 14, 2014 1:02:33 GMT
Somewhere I read that he does not want to take a title of nobility, though I don't know if that's true. I think that the Spanish Government plans to follow the Belgian/Luxemberger example, and retain their present styles and titles.
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Post by observer on Jun 10, 2014 22:13:03 GMT
many thanks; being a American its hard to keep up with who's who in ceremonies; the papers rarely provide information other than the main characters. You're welcome. You may also be interested to know that Prince Philip was wearing the uniform of Captain-General of the Royal Marines rather than his usual naval uniform. It is thought to be the first time he has worn this uniform at the Opening of Parliament, although he has held this position since 1953.
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Post by observer on Jun 6, 2014 3:31:19 GMT
just curious if anyone knows who the two ladies standing to Her Majesty's right during her throne speech were Lady Hussey and the Hon Mary Morrison. Lady Susan Hussey, GCVO, Baroness Hussey of North Bradley (husband is a life peer), born Lady Susan Katharine Waldegrave, daughter of Earl Waldegrave. The Hon Mary Morrison GCVO, is the sister of Sir Charles Morrison, Conservative MP for Devizes, and daughter of the 1st Baron Margadale.
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