Baby Girl for Princess Madeleine of Sweden

[paulchen]

Obviously I would like to congratulate HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden and Mr Chris O'Neill on the birth of their daughter, Leonore.

I am not surprised that, subject to her upbringing, has been confirmed in the order of Succession to the Swedish Throne. I am, however, rather surprised that she has been made a Princess and Duchess of Gotland and is not Miss Leonore O'Neill.

Call me old-fashioned, but as a Brit, where the Monarchy is being encouraged to "streamline" and also considering the slimline Royal Family in near-neighbours Norway, I am surprised that the Swedish Royal Family is looking to increase those with royal status.

[Dame Margaret of Fermoy]

I take it as a nod to the Swedish belief of men and women being equal, they made Crown Princess Victoria heir over Prince Carl Philip who was born as the crown prince and was such for a year. They did it because she was first born, her daughter Estelle was made a princess as her mother was the current heir and Princess Estelle is her mothers heir. The King made Victoria husband Prince Daniel a prince too. The king is the font of all honors in most counties.

When Prince Carl Philip marries his children will be prince and princesses of Sweden as right of there father being a prince of Sweden. So I think the king believes that Princess Madeleine children should be treated the same as Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Carl Philips children who will be born as prince and princesses of Sweden he has gone one step further and made sure the children of Princess Madeline have the same rights. I think it a cool thing for women's rights

[paulchen]

I appreciate that, Dame Margaret. But, if Princess Leonore doesn't reside in Sweden during her education, etc and doesn't comply with the requirements to keep her in the Line of Succession, will her titles be taken away from her? (As opposed to the children of TRH The Earl and Countess of Wessex whose children are legally Prince and Princess but their parents have chosen and had it agreed that they are addressed as children of a earl until they "chose" whether to be known as HRHs, etc.)

I can understand the children of the Crown princess Couple being royal as they are in direct line to the throne, but with Madeleine living and working in America and married to a man who has chosen not to convert to Swedish citizenship, I would have expected their children to be the equivalent of Prince Serre Magnus of Norway and a member of the Royal Family, but not of the Royal House...

[kingapolloxxxii]

I understand your train of thought Pauchen about Madeleine not residing in Sweden; but I agree with Dame Margaret that its a great move for equal rights for women; its the 21st century and with most monarchies trending absolute primogeniture why not make her daughter a princess?
I think the downsizing planned by The Prince of Wales will not work ; the Swedish Royal Family is not a world wide brand ruling over 16 nations; the Windsor's will be to stretched out to meet the demands and needs of their subjects in todays world.

[paulchen]

I think you're getting me slightly wrong here. I am not against Leonore being made a Princess and that royal status has passed through the female line. As a gay guy I can hardly be hypocritical and be against equality!

What I am surprised at is that Leonore has been given full royal status and a ducal title when her parents live and work in America, her father hasn't taken up Swedish citizenship and something like a "Her Highness" option (as in neighbouring Norway, as I mentioned) hasn't been taken up as opposed to "Her Royal Highness".

I presume she has not been awarded the Order of the Seraphim (as opposed to her cousin Princess Estelle, who is in direct succession to the Throne), but I am awaiting confirmation on that.

(I have edited my original post to correct the missing capital letter to Princess Madeleine's name and I should, of course, said Royal House in Norway rather than Royal Family as there is a pertinent difference.)

[Dame Margaret of Fermoy]

Gentlemen you both may be able to answer this question, about royal house versus royal family I am interested in knowing the different between it. Both Norway and the Netherlands make a distinction between both. In Norway His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus is only a HH will he be upgrade to a full HRH when his father becomes king from what I read only the king queen crown prince and crown princes and the crown princes heir, Her Royal Highness Princess Ingrid Alexandra are members of the house and are titled HRH. and that Prices Sverre Magnus is not as of right now. I did note Her Highness Princess Märtha Louise the king daughter was a HRH before how did she qualify and not Prices Sverre Magnus I noted she gave up the title for business reason and became a HH why was she made a HRH at birth and Prince Sverre Magnus was not.

I do find the system in the Netherlands more confusing to as to who is part of the royal house versus royal family and having to be related to the king with in three degrees of kinship to the monarch to be in the line of succession. it includes the king the queen the former Queen all the kings daughters.

if anyone has more details I love to read it

[Ibelieveinfairytales]

Mar 2, 2014 7:29:13 GMT kingapolloxxxii said:

I understand your train of thought Pauchen about Madeleine not residing in Sweden; but I agree with Dame Margaret that its a great move for equal rights for women; its the 21st century and with most monarchies trending absolute primogeniture why not make her daughter a princess?
I think the downsizing planned by The Prince of Wales will not work ; the Swedish Royal Family is not a world wide brand ruling over 16 nations; the Windsor's will be to stretched out to meet the demands and needs of their subjects in todays world.

Agree with you completely. At first I thought Madeleine's daughter wouldn't be given a title. Too used to thinking in the British succession rules where titles don't normally pass through the female line. But I think it is great that her daughter does have a title. Not sure if Sweden has a version of HH like Norway or Denmark.

If Prince Charles does trim the royal family, it too makes me wonder how they will manage the various charities and organizations that have come to rely on royal patronage. I suspect there will be a lot of disappointed organizations in the years to come.