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Post by Aidan Work on Feb 12, 2013 9:38:12 GMT
Everyone here will know by now that Pope Benedict XVI of Rome is abdicating with effect as from the 28th. of February. Some people say that this event is a resignation,but the Pope of Rome is also an elected monarch - the Sovereign of the Vatican City State,so the term 'abdication' is more correct. There has been speculation about what title Pope Benedict XVI of Rome will have after his abdication.Some people are claiming that he will revert to his 1977-2005 title as a Cardinal,but I believe he will be known as either 'Ex-Pope Benedict XVI' or 'Former Pope Benedict XVI'. Have a read up on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_of_Pope_Benedict_XVI . It has been confirmed that there will be a Sede Vacante commemorative coin for 2 Euros. It will be no surprise if the first Vatican City Euro coins of the next Pope of Rome came out later on this year. There is huge pressure for the College of Cardinals to elect a new Pope of Rome before Easter. This is the first time since 1415 that a Pope of Rome has abdicated,as in 1415,there was 3 claimants to the Papacy - a Pope of Rome in Avignon,a Pope of Rome in Rome,& an Antipope of Rome.All 3 of them were forced to abdicate to end the so-called 'Great Schism'. Aidan. |
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Post by observer on Feb 12, 2013 12:20:35 GMT
I understand that Benedict's spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi, has stated he might be referred to as Emeritus Bishop of Rome.
Presumably, unlike more conventional and democratic monarchies, his title and position of Cardinal was not subsumed into his position as sovereign of the State of the Vatican City, so he remains a Cardinal.
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Post by Aidan Work on Feb 12, 2013 20:56:35 GMT
Once elected,the Pope of Rome ceases to be a Cardinal.
Upgrading from a lower title to a higher title means that the lower title ceases to exist.A classic case is when the Duke of York became King George VI.The Duchy of York ceased to exist,as it was merged into the Crown.
I think he would be more properly 'Ex-Pope Benedict XVI' or 'Former Pope Benedict XVI'.
In the case of a Bishop becoming an Archbishop,the person becoming an Archbishop is no longer a Bishop.
Aidan.
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Post by observer on Feb 13, 2013 0:05:47 GMT
Once elected,the Pope of Rome ceases to be a Cardinal. Upgrading from a lower title to a higher title means that the lower title ceases to exist.A classic case is when the Duke of York became King George VI.The Duchy of York ceased to exist,as it was merged into the Crown. I think he would be more properly 'Ex-Pope Benedict XVI' or 'Former Pope Benedict XVI'. In the case of a Bishop becoming an Archbishop,the person becoming an Archbishop is no longer a Bishop. Aidan. I do not believe that the analogy between royal and ecclesiastical practices is correct. For example, the Malaysian ruler who becomes King of Malaysia remains sultan or raja of his home state and returns to that position when his term expires - or he abdicates (though none has so far done so). Queen Beatrix will become Princess Beatrix just as King Edward VIII reverted to being a prince on his abdication. People raised to the rank of duke from, say, that of marquess or earl remain marquesses and earls. Archbishops are merely bishops of a higher rank. Ordination as a bishop is for life - Prince Talleyrand received the last rites as a bishop despite having been excommunicated. |
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Post by observer on Feb 13, 2013 2:55:38 GMT
Once elected,the Pope of Rome ceases to be a Cardinal. Upgrading from a lower title to a higher title means that the lower title ceases to exist.A classic case is when the Duke of York became King George VI.The Duchy of York ceased to exist,as it was merged into the Crown. I think he would be more properly 'Ex-Pope Benedict XVI' or 'Former Pope Benedict XVI'. In the case of a Bishop becoming an Archbishop,the person becoming an Archbishop is no longer a Bishop. Aidan. I do not believe that the SPAM WORDogy between royal and ecclesiastical practices is correct. For example, the Malaysian ruler who becomes King of Malaysia remains sultan or raja of his home state and returns to that position when his term expires - or he abdicates (though none has so far done so). Queen Beatrix will become Princess Beatrix just as King Edward VIII reverted to being a prince on his abdication. People raised to the rank of duke from, say, that of marquess or earl remain marquesses and earls. Archbishops are merely bishops of a higher rank. Ordination as a bishop is for life - Prince Talleyrand received the last rites as a bishop despite having been excommunicated. Please substitute the word "comparison" for "SPAM WORDogy." Political stupidity run wild |
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Post by Aidan Work on Feb 13, 2013 2:57:27 GMT
Once elected,the Pope of Rome ceases to be a Cardinal. Upgrading from a lower title to a higher title means that the lower title ceases to exist.A classic case is when the Duke of York became King George VI.The Duchy of York ceased to exist,as it was merged into the Crown. I think he would be more properly 'Ex-Pope Benedict XVI' or 'Former Pope Benedict XVI'. In the case of a Bishop becoming an Archbishop,the person becoming an Archbishop is no longer a Bishop. Aidan. I do not believe that the SPAM WORDogy between royal and ecclesiastical practices is correct. For example, the Malaysian ruler who becomes King of Malaysia remains sultan or raja of his home state and returns to that position when his term expires - or he abdicates (though none has so far done so). The elected federal kingship of Malaysia is unlike that of the Papacy,as the King of Malaysia is elected by & from among the royal rulers in the Conference of Rulers for a set term of 5 years,but a few Kings of Malaysia died before completing their reigns as King of Malaysia,which necessitated a new election as though a 5 year reign had been completed. The incumbent King of Malaysia always appoints a regent to rule his home state on his behalf. An abdicated monarch does NOT always revert to a lower title,as the late King Norodom Sihanouk became King-Father upon his final abdication in 2004. I would not be too surprised if Pope Benedict XVI is given a title including his regnal name to recognise his status as an Ex-Pope of Rome. Aidan. |
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Post by observer on Feb 13, 2013 9:22:56 GMT
When King Sihanouk abdicated the first time, he reverted to "Prince," at least in communiques with foreign nations.
Sihanouk's official title after his second abdication was "Great King of Cambodia" (or possibly Greatest King), granted unanimously by the Cambodian Parliament on October 20, 2004, after his abdication was approved.
I believe 'King-Father' was a style rather than a title, and reflected the reality of his situation.
There is also an interesting parallel between the Papacy and the Kingdom of Cambodia. Both are elective monarchies but, whereas there is nothing to prevent a Pope resigning, there was nothing in the Cambodian constitution allowing a king to abdicate. The Cambodian constitution had to be altered to allow Sihanouk's abdication and the election of his son. As an abdicated elected monarch, Sihanouk had no constitutional expectation of any title on his abdication.
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Post by Cinderella on Feb 13, 2013 21:09:50 GMT
Observer, sorry about the "spam word" problem. That was a leftover filter put in place to stop a spammer we had a few years ago. I've modified the filter now.
(Although if we start getting the same kind of spam links posted here again, I'll have to restore the filter.)
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Post by observer on Feb 13, 2013 23:55:06 GMT
Observer, sorry about the "spam word" problem. That was a leftover filter put in place to stop a spammer we had a few years ago. I've modified the filter now. (Although if we start getting the same kind of spam links posted here again, I'll have to restore the filter.) Cinderella, Thank you for your comment. I didn't realize why it happened but quite understand your use of a filter to stop spammers. |
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King Sargon
Member of the Court
Grand Master of the Stronghold
Posts: 6 
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Post by King Sargon on Feb 18, 2013 15:48:14 GMT
I seem to recall in Canon Law, they do not refer to this as an abdication. Which is odd given the Pope is essentially an absolute monarch.
It will be interesting to see what his status turns out to be following all this.
King Sargon
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Post by observer on Feb 21, 2013 2:43:11 GMT
I seem to recall in Canon Law, they do not refer to this as an abdication. Which is odd given the Pope is essentially an absolute monarch. It will be interesting to see what his status turns out to be following all this. King Sargon I believe that the difference may be because the Pope is Head of State ex officio because he was elected Bishop of Rome and, thus, Pope. When he ceases to be Bishop of Rome he ceases to be Head of State of the Vatican City. In some ways, the position of Bishop of Rome and Head of State is comparable to that of the Bishop of Urgel in Spain and the President of the French Republic who, because of their positions, are ex officio Co-Princes of Andorra. When they cease to be the former, they also cease to be the latter, with no abdication necessary. "Pope," incidentally, is NOT one of the official titles of the Bishop of Rome, which are: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God." |
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Post by observer on Feb 26, 2013 13:38:20 GMT
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